Thief II: The Metal Age - Sabotage at Soulforge

The Turret Room

This is fully a Ghosting only exercise since the Tower here is not required and there is no other useful item to pick up. The Turrets, or Sentries as they are referred to in the Plans Room write-up, are different. I'm still trying to determine just how they work. They'll make a clunking noise which sometimes includes the electronic sound similar to the Watcher when it senses Garrett. I'll refer to this as Arming. There is no noticeable motion or movement by a Turret Arming itself. Garrett does not need to be in view for this to happen. For example, descending the middle ladder will provoke this Arming response in some Turrets. While on this ladder, Garrett is in full shadow. I have further determined how to avoid this. The way to avoid Turrets Arming is to look away from them while moving. I'll refer to this as "Ostrich" behaviour. In fact, it may be true that looking directly away from the Turret in question, in a 3D sense, maximizes Garrett's stealth. Even though in full light including a red sub-gem, the Turrets will not Arm while Garrett traverses the third Catwalk as long as he doesn't look at them. Then, in full shadow at the end of the third Catwalk, as soon as Garrett looks at a Turret, it Arms itself. I believe the Turrets don't look at or follow Garrett unless they've first Armed themselves. I am inclined to define Arming as a level one alert and therefore not a Ghost bust since the Turrets do not turn to face Garrett while doing so. Once they do turn to face and then follow Garrett I'm inclined to view this as a level two alert and therefore a Ghost bust. Just the same it may be possible to get completely through the Turret Room without a Turret Arming itself. We'll see.

So far, I've not been able to open the gate to the Tower elevator room without being noticed by at least one Turret. I've tried shooting the Gate Switch with Broadheads but have been unable to trip it as yet.

If you want to save the game while in this room, always look away from all Turrets before doing so. That way when you load that save the Turrets won't Arm themselves right away.

I've managed to get to the position just outside the Beacon Tower elevator room doorway, where I took this second screenshot, without alerting any Turrets. For reference this spot is right in the lower left corner of the first screenshot. There is a shadow here and up along the rope to the platform above beside the catwalk. Two or three Armed when I descended the middle ladder to get at the elevator room gate switch but the ones I can see from here are still facing their original directions so no alerts. I've tried again and returned to the entrance doorway darkness and looked at all the Turrets after having opened the gate and they are all facing their original positions. I've tested being able to get back up on the rope I placed in the grate in the north wall and can get up to the platform okay but have as yet been unable to get back onto the catwalk, however. The five or ten feet to the elevator room doorway is brightly lit and I have yet to figure out how to get there without alerting the Turrets including looking away. This is going to require some other technique. I also know that Garrett can crouch along the edge of the benches the Turrets are on and they can't see him.

It may actually be true that my "Arming" is actually a full alert and that the Turrets are not turning to face Garrett only because he's looking away and they're not being rendered. I remember pointing the Scouting Orb view too far away from the Golden Boy in Angelwatch when I left it overnight once and since he was not in the view and therefore not being rendered he didn't fidget and didn't move. The only other evidence that "Arming" may not be a full alert is that the Turrets don't fire their projectiles which they do when they finally do alert regardless of what direction Garret is facing.

Something interesting. In an attempt to determine whether the Turrets have reoriented at any point during my "Ostrich" trip over by the elevator doorway, I tossed out a Scouting Orb. After the Orb landed and before an image appeared, the Turret Armed! I had not moved from my "safe" spot atop the column east of the elevator doorway and my Gem made no noticeable flicker during this event. If this is true then this will be the first and only time I've witnessed any AI react in any way to the Scouting Orb. So, I did some tests. Without exception, the Turrets Armed but never reoriented. This too when the Orb image was away from all Turrets. So, I loaded up the previous mission, "Masks", and activated one of the Turrets. I could get no response from the Turret when I tossed out a Scouting Orb! At this point it looks like the Turrets in the Soulforge Turret Room are different than Turrets elsewhere in the game!

More on the Scouting Orb. There seem only two "safe" spots. The shadow at the main entrance to the Turret Room and the spot the second screenshot was taken from. Tossing out the Orb from any other spot results in Turret Arming. However, returning to a "safe" spot by the main entrance doorway and tossing the Orb from there seems to result in no Turret reaction even though some Turrets had Armed previously while Garrett descended the first ladder. So, it seems to depend on whether Garrett is "safe" or not as to how the Turrets react to the Orb. This would explain my observations in "Masks."

I can't determine with any rigor any corelation between Turret behaviour and Garrett's position vis-a-vis shadow or light nor line-of-sight. The only consistent method seems these two "safe" spots and, of course, the "Ostrich" affect while moving. There are other complete shadows that aren't "safe." For example, at the tops of the first two ladders and at the end of the third catwalk. Just by the way, it was the Turrets' Arming during my slow crouch-creeping toward the first catwalk while in darkest shadow and not in any Turrets' lines-of-sight that lead me to discover the "Ostrich" method. I could move backward onto this catwalk but could not get to it moving forward. Turns out looking at the ceiling is as effective an "Ostrich" orientation as any other.

I've sat here in this "safe" or "sweet" spot at the base of the column just outside the elevator doorway for a few days now. I've not progressed any further. So, by way of a review of what I've discovered so far, I thought I'd run through my "Ostrich" trip to this point and some miscellany that might give me some inspiration.

From the Turret Room main entrance doorway I head for the ladder leading up to the first catwalk. Face the north wall, walk up flush against it. Continue to face this wall and crouch, creep, move right. This speed will result in footsteps so take baby steps. I define baby steps as short movement that results in no footsteps. At the end of this move is a shadowed corner just beside the doorway to the ladder. Facing directly into this corner, northeast, continue to baby step crouch, creep, move right and slide through the doorway well into the room. Then, crouch, creep walk slowly over due south of the ladder. This next move is a little tricky. The Turret on the first bench, A, will spot you sometimes if you jump too high. I stand and then run and jump onto the right side of the ladder. You'll want to land as low on the ladder as possible. I do this be releasing the jump and movement keys before landing on the ladder to cut the jump short. When I'm safely on this ladder I save. Continue looking northeast and now also upward and climb the ladder. Don't stop until you're off the ladder and in the northeast corner of the room above. Continue looking up at the ceiling so that none of the Turrets are in your field of view and turn and crouch, creep, walk slowly over to the first catwalk. There is a slight bump getting onto the catwalk that requires at least crouch, walk forward speed to get over. Then proceed to crouch, creep, walk forward slowly all the way across this catwalk to the room with the desk. I lower my view enough to center the notch in the arch across the catwalk in my lightgem. Don't worry about making clunking footstep noises on the metal catwalk. The Turrets may well be deaf. I've never observed any reaction to noise.

Garrett has been in full shadow four times during this first two legs of the trip. The only shadow that is "safe" or "sweet" as the forum refers to it is the one by the main entrance doorway. If Garrett looks at any of the Turrets or tosses out a Scouting Orb from any of the other three shadows, the Turrets will Arm.

Grab the Sunburst device and crouch, move left over and get the two fire arrows. The trip across the second catwalk is identical to the first catwalk. Be sure to look up at the ceiling while traversing so non of the Turrets is in Garrett's field of view. At the end of the second catwalk there is a tunnel going south to a short drop down to the third catwalk level. The rest of the trip is treated the same as the first two catwalks. Look at the ceiling and proceed across the third catwalk and around the corners down toward the column on the north side of the elevator room doorway. Garrett gets hung up on the slanting ceiling sometimes so just jiggle past.

Getting onto the platform at the top of the column requires a jump. As long as Garrett doesn't look at the Turrets while running and jumping over he should be okay. On this column platform I look at the ceiling and toward the southeast, H, and crouch, creep, walk forward slowly as far as I can go. This speed will not allow Garrett over the edges of the platform. This puts Garrett at the southeast corner of the platform in full light. Turn to face the grate on the north wall and place a rope arrow as low as possible and well into the shadow. Slide over northeast of the rope and crouch run onto it. There is a small ledge on the top of the platform that Garrett will have to fit past. If the rope is too far south Garrett may rotate into full light trying to get past this ledge and the Turrets will shoot. Anyhow, rock and roll your way down to the bottom of the rope but staying in the shadow. The rope isn't quite long enough to get Garrett all the way to the floor so try to select point of view and movement keys that will push Garrett into the shadowed corner between the west wall and the column, northwest, when he falls off the end of the rope. That way Garrett should be in shadow all the way.

That's as far as I've been able to get. All my attempts to get across and through the elevator doorway have alerted the Turrets. You can run over and duck back up against the wall just through this doorway and the bombs will explode harmlessly on the elevator itself if you want to have a look around in here to see what other possibles my came up. I've gottem back onto the rope and gone back up onto the platform safely but have not been able to get back over onto the catwalk without alerting the Turrets. Getting back over onto the catwalk requires a straffe- or moveback-jump to avoid having any Turrets in Garrett's field of view but it's doable.

From Gorrick's notes in the Plans Room on Watchers and Sentries (Turrets): "For the Sentry, the act of Focusing on any Foe, or the Casting of Projectiles, large or small, is known to cause said Sentry to swiftly consumeth its Fuel Resources in abundance." He goes on to discuss the pairing of Sentries and Watchers to overcome this flaw. Possibly the Turrets can be weakened by causing them to reArm multiple times. To their credit, the Turrets act instantaneously. The Watchers are delayed by the yellow alert. I don't know if Arming uses any fuel, though, since, without the Turret changing its orientation, it can't rightly be called "Focusing." In addition, Gorrick talks about Soulforge's plentiful power supply so this may be a futile exercise. However, I've thought about somehow attempting to disable the power supply in either the Golden Boy room or the gated room immediately north of the North Apse. Both of these rooms have machines with brown and gold motifs that recur in the Turret Room elevator room piping. This may require Ghosting the Golden Boy which I'm leery of being able to do. Maybe the lights in the Turret Room can be disabled this way too.

The wall that the elevator doorway is in has an odd colouring. It looks to me like a full arch similar to those separating the other sections of the Turret Room. It reminds me of colour differences between old and new brickwork on buildings where a window or doorway has been bricked over recently. I also consider just why LGS may have coloured it this way? Did they have to go out of their way to do this or was it the result of laziness and cutting and pasting a texture from elsewhere? This colouring is used also on the north wall by the main entrance to the Turret Room. I've tried fire arrows at this wall and the Sunburst Device in the elevator room doorway with no results.

There may be an alternate route to the elevator or perhaps even the tower. The map shows the elevator room flush up against the chapel. I've tried the Sunburst Device on this wall in the chapel with no affect. It also appears that the lowered ceiling on the side of the chapel room may lead toward the elevator room. I've tried to get into the furnace from the Golden Boy room to see if there isn't a tunnel but have been unable to do this. Once again a Box would probably be just about the correct height to allow Garrett to crouch into the furnace. I've tried spiderbot bodies but they're too difficult to get up onto. I can see nothing intriguing looking into the furnace.

There may be other "safe" or "sweet" spots around the Turret Room flooring. I've not found any except the short tunnel leading to the gate switch. I wouldn't assume other "sweet" spots would be also shadowed.

Let's just see how well built this place is, shall we? Eleven Sunburst Devices and one mine. Only problem is there's no spot in the chapel afterward that Garrett isn't fully lit up! And, BTW, a PIII 450 + GeForce SDR isn't enough. About two frames per second afterward.

Here are a couple of shots of items I've wondered about while working away at the Turret Room. The first shot is a Skylight over the second Catwalk. A window really but it's on the ceiling so I'll call it a Skylight. An interesting feature is the slanted ceiling up near the Skylight. Both ends are the same. I can't see any way to open it. The second shot is the wall shared by the Turret Room and the Chapel. There is a Winged Figure, two Speakers, and two lights on the wall over the ramp. The floor of the Chapel is brick or stone except a metal "T" between the two Crosses below the ramp that extends out towards the seating. The Turret Room Elevator shares the section of this wall on the far right of this view, in the darkness.

Has anyone fiddled around with either of these two features? It sure would be nice if Garret could get at the Turret Room Elevator from the Chapel somehow.